Wednesday, January 9, 2008

I Still Get Mail

By Manifesto Joe

An anonymous poster responded to my last post, which is, I suppose, a good thing. It's better than being ignored. But the person seemed to miss the point, which is not unusual. Here's the exchange, so far:

From anonymous:

Before the details were released, by both sides, I read a lot about the conspiracy by the USG to fabricate another Gulf of Tonkin scenario. All this as a nefarious plot to A) bolster a case for war against Iran, B) help get a Republican elected in 2008, and C) to increase investment in Naval warships.

Now that we can see the video and hear the audio and look at what each side is saying, does anyone want to retract their initial offerings? Iran (ISNA and Fars) admitted the contact took place. No one disputes the US ships were in International waters. Iranian accounts classify this as a normal occurrence (watch the video, does this look normal). It looks provocative from the Iranian side to me.

Further, has anyone heard of Iran's plan for asymmetrical tactics to counter US military capability? It calls for the use of such speed boats in suicide attacks. Some see Gulf of Tonkin, I see USS Cole. The IRGC Navy has had these speed boats and has been developing such tactics for some time, its not new.

If you can look at this objectively and decide that your first impressions may have been hasty, take the time to issue a correction or at least update your view to reflect the new information. Anything less is disingenuous.

My response:

To the previous poster: I just viewed the video and heard the audio. Well, at least they have got "something." Looked like a couple of Iranian speedboaters who were either bored, or smoking something against regulations.

But, go back and read my piece. There is nothing to correct or retract. How does one correct or retract caution? I made no definite pronouncement.

The point that you and many others miss is that our government has lied to us enough times about things like this -- often, and very recently -- that there is always enormous room for doubt. And that in itself is a goddamned shame.

I sincerely wish we had a government that we could implicitly trust. In school, I was told that this was the case. Experience has taught me otherwise.

In any case, what I just saw doesn't look like something to start a protracted war over. Show me more. A lot more.

Manifesto Joe Is An Underground Writer Living In Texas.


Cranky Daze said...

Joe...Re: this incident. Go here:;_ylt=Avbxy68FMTy.29WQxamshY2yFz4D

The audio and video were for some reason filmed/recorded separately, and the Navy doesn't know where the voices came from. Think that's a little odd?

If people are skeptical about these kinds of reports, Bush and his friends have brought it on themselves. If they hadn't started lying about Iraq and those fictional WMD, the yellow cake uranium, and all the other falsehoods they have spawned, Americans would have no reason to mistrust everything they say.

You reap what you sew.

Cranky Daze said...

Oh drat. This page won't accommodate that long URL. Go to Google and type in "Pentagon says ships harassed Iran" (without the quotes). As of tonight, it's the first link on the page you'll get.

chris wilcox said...

You are right on Joe. This stinks, not only because it looks like a Bush plot to keep fear at the front of the campaign but more so because we have to think that. This story was my post for Thursday as well.

Marc McDonald said...

Politicians who've actually been in combat (like Max Cleland) are invariably extremely reluctant to ever get America involved in another war.
On the other hand, people who've never been in combat (like Bush and Cheney) are quite eager to launch wars at the drop of a hat and send other (usually mostly rural and poor) people to die.
I wonder if the day will come when members of the military will lay down their arms and simply refuse to fight any more for the Psychopath-In-Chief's war of lies.
If anyone from the military is reading this: please educate yourself on the issues---you are being LIED to.